I was interested in the fact that the deceased Pavel Sheremet was the common-law husband of Alena Prytula.
What is this woman?

Previously, she lived with the journalist Gongadze, whose head is still being sought.

Alas, the late journalist was not a good family man, although his wife Miroslava regularly appears in the media as his widow. But the first thing she did after the death of her husband was to apply for political asylum in the United States and received it. She seemed to be in danger too.
Miroslava gave birth to Gongadze two daughters.


Now they have grown


Since arriving in the United States, Gongadze has worked as a television and radio correspondent for Voice of America, a freelance correspondent for Radio Liberty, and a visiting researcher at the Institute of European, Russian, and Eurasian Studies at George Washington University in Washington. Considered an influential woman in Ukraine.
Somewhere I read that she got married again, but I did not find the link.

And here is such a woman: a beautiful, smart, mother of two children, and her husband left her for Alena Pritula, and despite the fact that he was a famous womanizer and had many mistresses.

Alena Pritula was born on March 10, 1967 in the city of Zavolzhye, Gorky region, but the family later moved to the Odessa region, so she is from Odessa.
Her first husband lived in Sevastopol; in 1991, both of them retrained from engineers to journalists. Then they divorced.
In December 1999, Alyona Prytula, along with journalists Sergei Sholokh and Georgy Gongadze, arrived in Washington to draw the attention of the US authorities to the oppression of freedom of speech in Ukraine. In April 2000, Prytula, together with Georgy Gongadze, founded the online publication Ukrainska Pravda. Gongadze became the editor-in-chief, and Pritula became his deputy. Pritula was the owner of the publication.
Six months later, Gongadze left Prytula's house and disappeared. His headless body was found two months later.
At that time, Ukrayinska Pravda was a small-circulation and unprofitable publication, but in the wake of the scandal it began to unwind and by 2005 reached self-sufficiency. Interesting. With what money did Prytula keep the newspaper for 6 whole years?
As for the story with Gongadze, it was used solely to discredit the then President of Ukraine Kuchma and his people. But Kuchma for some time was considered almost a protege of Russia. After the murder of Gongadze, in which he was allegedly involved, he no longer had any freedom of maneuver.

Pavel Sheremet was also married. He had children: son Nikolai and daughter Elizabeth


This time, Prytula's lover exploded in her car.
Most likely, Sheremet's death will be used for internal clashes within the Ukrainian elite. Last time, the death of Gongadze played into the hands of Tymoshenko.
I wonder who will be the next "hugger"?

Almost five and a half years ago, on September 16, 2000, the Ukrainian journalist Georgy Gongadze disappeared, and it was from that day that the countdown began. new history 48 millionth European state. One way or another, the death of George touched each of us, but most of all it hit his family: mother, wife, twin daughters ...

No one saw the widow's tears and tantrums - Miroslava did not give her enemies such pleasure. Some in her place from grief fall into a panic, give vent to emotions, and she became a compressed spring and thought every minute what to do, how to save her husband. Detached, gathered her will into a fist, held press conferences, gave comments and interviews. Sometimes, hand in hand with his rival, who was the last to see Georgy alive, it was from her house that he left at 22.20 on that fateful evening ... It was their joint efforts that just a few days after the disappearance of Gongadze, Kiev was hung with ads with a black outline of the head: "Help me find a journalist!".

Miroslava's decision to receive political refugee status and leave for the United States seemed unexpected to many - for a woman with two three-year-old children in her arms, this was an act. Nevertheless, she was ready to wash windows and set tables in restaurants, so long as the daughters Nana and Salome did not experience what fell to her lot. There, away from annoying attention, the widow hoped to heal her spiritual wounds.

Miroslava was not in Ukraine for four long years - only in April 2005, after the "orange revolution", she again visited Kyiv, where she had once been happy. She lived with George for 10 years and for five years without him, but those responsible for the death of her husband have not yet been punished. It is not known, by the way, how long the trial of the perpetrators of the crime would have been postponed if the unhurried Ukrainian justice had not been rushed by the European Court of Human Rights. He satisfied the claim of Miroslava Gongadze, who accused the Ukrainian authorities of "failing to protect her husband's life" and "failed to properly investigate" the murder case, and last November awarded Miroslava 100,000 euros in compensation...

"At first it seemed that Gia was alive, that he had been kidnapped"

- A few years ago, when a submarine disappeared into the depths of the Barents Sea "Kursk", Russian President Vladimir Putin paid a visit to the studio of the famous American TV presenter Larry King. "What happened to the Kursk?" - King asked Putin, and the president Russian Federation calmly replied: "He drowned." Miroslava, what happened to your husband, Ukrainian journalist Georgy Gongadze?

Probably, my answer will be slightly different from Putin's - I will not say that Gia drowned or died ... I think that first of all he changed the history of Ukraine, and if you describe what happened to him in detail ... On the evening of September 16, 2000 George simply did not return home. I was waiting for him right on the street - I did not have the keys to the apartment, and we agreed to come at the same time ... I walked with two children along the dark Krasnoarmeiskaya and did not understand what was happening: he should be at home!

He was still gone, and I didn’t know what to do, where to call, who to run to ... That night and the next day were the most terrible in my life, and then a hard, very hard struggle began when we sought an investigation that no one was in no hurry to do so.

At first, it seemed that Gia was alive, that he had been kidnapped. To be honest, I was hoping that the story of the Russian journalist Babitsky, who disappeared in Chechnya, would repeat itself. A campaign was launched against him in the Russian media, but two months later Babitsky was finally found.

At first, I also tried to find George: I turned to the public, raised journalists. When something like this falls on you, a void forms in your head and you don’t know where to go, who to ask for help... This is not an ordinary situation, so no one can give you advice, suggest how to act... Well, then understanding came and with it strength. Understanding that you can not give up, that I am responsible for the children. What happened next, you know.

I won’t discover America if I say: before the disappearance of Georgy Gongadze, few people in Ukraine had heard of him. Yes, he led the Ukrayinska Pravda Internet project, but, honestly, even specialists (I mean fellow journalists) did not know his last name. It so happened that now the whole world knows her. Tell me, did your heart tell you that a tragedy could happen, that your husband could be killed?

Personally, I did not foresee the tragedy, but when in July 2000 Georgiy began to be followed...

- How did this happen?

Elementary. Gia said: “I am being watched, something is happening around me - I have to understand what” ... Indeed, a car was constantly following him, insolently.

- Did you see it yourself?

Well, of course. Returning home in the evening, he usually called: "I go into the entrance, please open the door, turn on the light." We lived on the third floor, I went out to the stairwell, and George warned from below: "I'm here." My husband was constantly afraid of something ... I can’t say that the crimes against him, but some kind of attack, some kind of incomprehensible story. After a certain police colonel (if I'm not mistaken, his last name is Bernak) came to the radio "Continent", where Georgy worked, and collected information about him. Gia became afraid of the policemen. Moreover, he had a painful presentiment, and he was constantly on his guard ...

When I went outside in the morning, a short-haired man in a leather jacket sat on a bench near our house and calmly watched our windows ...

Did he even hide from you?

No, absolutely. I immediately called George, who was still at home: "Gia, they are watching." He answered: "I see. I'll come to work, I'll recruit you." We called all the time. "Everything is fine?". - "Fine!". This went on for quite a long time, and then, after consulting with experienced lawyers, George decided to send an official letter to the Prosecutor General. He wrote down the numbers of the cars that were following him, described the people who were following him, and asked him to explain what was happening after all. Gia believed that this was some kind of provocation, that they were trying to intimidate him ...

From the Gordon Boulevard dossier:

Georgy Gongadze was born on May 21, 1969 in Tbilisi. Thanks to his father, a member of the Georgian parliament, he joined politics early. When Zviad Gamsakhurdia became president of the country, Ruslan Gongadze, whom Giya loved very much, fell into the category of objectionable - in the lists of "enemies of the people" published by newspapers, he was in 28th place.

Due to the stress he suffered, Georgy's father fell ill and had to be treated at the Kiev oncology dispensary. After the death of Ruslan Gongadze, the Ukrainian government, in recognition of his special merits, paid for the plane and the funeral.

When in December 1991 an uprising against Gamsakhurdia began in Georgia, Georgy flew in from Lvov, where he had lived by that time. "Mom," he said to his mother, "I want to defend the honor and name of my father. I won't raise my hand against a Georgian - I'll be a nurse."

On the 40th day after the death of his father, Gia went to Sukhumi to make a film about the war in Abkhazia "The Pain of My Land". He did not hold a weapon in his hands, did not take part in the hostilities, but came under fire on the front line. Doctors counted 26 wounds in his body. Fortunately, Gia was taken to Tbilisi. As it turned out later, this was the last plane from Sukhumi: all the Georgians who remained there were killed.

Georgiy began to visit Ukraine from the end of the 80s as a representative of the information service People's Front Georgia. In September 1990, he married a Galician Miroslava, transferred to the faculty foreign languages local university, participated in the actions of Rukh and the Student Brotherhood.

"Vyacheslav Pikhovshek said: "George, you are playing with fire, you are playing with your death"

- Did you wait for an answer from the Prosecutor General's Office?

Well, of course not. The Prosecutor General sent this letter to Lviv, at the place of residence of George, and from the Lviv Regional Prosecutor's Office they answered that the listed names of streets and places (Kyiv! - D. G.) are unknown to them. Of course, this was a formal reply. Later, while listening to the recordings of Major Melnichenko, a conversation surfaced where we are talking about this letter. "Well, what about Gongadze? - Kuchma asks Interior Minister Kravchenko. - How much is it possible? I ordered to deal with him." Kravchenko replies: "The situation is not easy ... We are trying, we are trying, but he wrote a letter to the Prosecutor General." Kuchma said in annoyance: "Why does every shit have to write to the Prosecutor General?" All of this is on tape. And then the general stood in front: "Everything is fine ... I have such guys, such eagles - they will solve this issue."

I'm not quoting verbatim, from memory, but there was such a conversation, and its date coincides with the period when Georgy turned to the Prosecutor General's Office. After that, surveillance stopped, in any case, we stopped noticing it. One day, Gia came home and said that his friends were warning him that he should leave Ukraine. I do not know who exactly warned, because he did not name names, but the fact is obvious.

We then underestimated the dangers, we simply did not know how to react to such information. Perhaps we really should have gone somewhere, but we had two very small children, and besides, we had neither money nor connections abroad. We talked, joked and on this they considered the topic settled. At the same time, you know ... It seems to me that George had a premonition of the near end.

In August, I went to the United States for a two-week study and took the children to my parents - I decided that it would be better for them there, in Western Ukraine. Still, summer is in the yard, and then there is this surveillance ... When I returned, my husband asked: "Let's bring the children." In fact, I was going to pick them up in mid-September. "George," she said, "it's August now. Let them stay outside." - "No, let's bring it."

He was so insistent that he had to agree. Last weeks Gia was very active in learning English and Georgian with them. Every morning and every evening lessons, lessons...

(Crying). Of course, he had a bad feeling. From time to time, the husband threw such phrases: "Remember, you are responsible for the children!" I was perplexed: "George, what's going on?" I had absolutely no idea why he was saying that. It became clear later: Gia knew that the clouds were gathering...

In my opinion, a journalist can fear for his life in two cases: either when he is the bearer of some state secrets, or if he has learned and is going to write something about powerful people that, in their opinion, should not be. What do you think happened in this case?

I propose to return to the beginning of our conversation. You said you didn't know George...

- I mean wide circles, the public...

Perhaps this is so, but political elite the name of the journalist Gongadze was very well known. After all, he hosted several television projects ... By the way, he had his first clash with Kuchma back in 1996. The husband then worked for the Internews television company - he produced the analytical program Vikna Plus, which was broadcast by regional television channels. Once he made a story about President Kuchma and his associates - he told who, with whom and from where. Most of the associates (there were listed eight or 13 people) Kuchma brought from Dnepropetrovsk, and Georgy called them the Dnepropetrovsk clan.

It was very detailed and serious material... As if it were a sin, at that moment the President was in the Carpathians and absolutely accidentally saw this story. The next day, at about eight o'clock in the morning, our boss called: "What was in your program, Georgy?" Gia shrugged, "Nothing special, as usual." - "No, there was some kind of plot," - and so on. The management did not follow the content and showed vigilance in hindsight.

Then George was reprimanded, almost fired from the company. This was the first story, and the second, if you look at the development, took place in the 99th year. Remember, Kuchma ran for a second presidential term? Journalists wrote little about that election campaign, but Georgiy made two programs on the radio "Continent": one was called "Journalistic basement", and the other - "Ukraine political". He invited oppositionists to the studio, from whose speeches it was clearly visible that falsification was taking place.

When, in spite of everything, the elections were held and the President remained in his post for a second term, Giorgi prepared an open letter, which dealt with falsifications and pressure on the media. With this document, which was signed by about 60 Ukrainian journalists, my husband went to the United States, where President Kuchma was supposed to pay an official visit after the inauguration. George had meetings at the State Department, with congressmen, influential representatives of the diaspora. He also spoke at a briefing by Radio Liberty in Washington - publicly spoke about the violations with which the elections took place, assured that this was not only his opinion, and showed the signatures of 60 Ukrainian journalists.

Then - Sergei Sholokh, who was there with Gia, told me about this - Vyacheslav Pikhovshek approached him in the park near the White House and said: "George, you are playing with fire, you are playing with your death." I do not quote verbatim, I do not want to distort anything, but it was said something like this. (Sholokh testified at the prosecutor's office - and all this is in the case file).

Well, then there was "Ukrainian Truth", other projects. The April 2000 referendum is very important in this context. Do you remember how many discussions around him were then? Changes in the Constitution, strengthening of presidential power... It was already a period when the media were not particularly willing to talk about corruption and other problems, and only Giorgi took this topic very seriously. He got a lot of facts showing that the results of the referendum were falsified, and devoted a huge amount of material to them in Ukrayinska Pravda. I think this article served as another impetus for the fact that he was dealt with.

"Kuchma ran away from me"

Yes, indeed, then, in 2000, the Internet was not widespread in Ukraine, but President Kuchma always had two faces: one - turned to the West, the other - to the people of Ukraine. In front of the West, Kuchma tried to look like the leader of a democratic plan: they say that he led Ukraine from totalitarianism to democracy and in these conditions is building a young state, creating a market economy...

For Ukrainian politicians, not to mention the people, he was an unconditional dictator who tried to control everything and everything. Moreover, it was not enough for him to be afraid - he wanted to be loved, and therefore any negative information was undesirable for him. If, however, some information about his activities - in particular, about corruption in the environment of the President - nevertheless leaked into the press, he was very annoyed and indignant. George, by the way, was not the only one who annoyed him. The names of such journalists as Tatyana Korobova (Kuchma called her a bitch), Oleg Lyashko, Oleg Yeltsov, Sergei Rakhmanin, Yulia Mostovaya were mentioned many times in the President's office...

SBU chairman Leonid Derkach regularly carried materials to Kuchma: "Read this, read that...". He cheated the President: here, they say, what kind of dirt they spread on the Internet.

For Kuchma, the Internet was something of a mystery. He had no idea what it looked like, because once (I heard this in Major Melnichenko's notes) he said: "Well, has this Internet been closed yet?" It was obvious that he himself had never dealt with the Net and did not know how to use it.

Probably, not only Leonid Derkach carried such materials to him - the circle of people who planted "compromising evidence" could be wider. It included, I think, Volodymyr Lytvyn, who at that time headed the Presidential Administration, and a press secretary... I do not rule out that one of them deliberately inspired Kuchma that Gongadze was very bad person and wants to discredit him, destroy him...

Knowing the character of Leonid Danilovich, I will express my point of view. I admit that he could not like the journalist Gongadze for what he did, but kill for publications? Personally, it seems to me that Kuchma is not capable of this. I remember how in February 2001 on a direct line in the editorial office of the newspaper "FACTS" Leonid Danilovich - I saw it! - very hard experienced the accusations against him. Sitting opposite, he suddenly looked straight into my eyes and said: "I did not kill him - that's all I have, I swear." This was said frankly, in the hearts, and for some reason I believed him. Do you think Kuchma could have ordered the assassination of Georgy Gongadze?

Absolutely could. I have never talked with Leonid Kuchma, but it seems to me that if a person does not feel guilty towards another person, talking to him is not a problem for him. Kuchma did not dare to do this, he ran away from me. Once I met his eyes during the funeral of Alexander Yemets. Alexander was my close friend, and I was near his coffin when the President came to express his sympathy to the family of the tragically deceased deputy.

We were standing at a distance of about two meters, when suddenly he looked up and ... saw me. I was in tears, because I was mourning a friend who was lying in a coffin, but I was also crying in pain, because I saw some kind of cynicism in what was happening. Kuchma was talking to his subordinates, but when he saw me, he instantly turned around and quickly left the hall ...

If President Kuchma hadn't been guilty of anything, he probably would have met with me at the very least. Not once did I hear from him any apologies, no questions, no words of consolation - nothing. These are my personal feelings, but there are facts that confirm them. On the recordings made in his office, Kuchma constantly demands from his subordinates - in particular, directly from Kravchenko - to deal with Georgiy. He did not say: "Kill" - such words did not sound, but he kept saying: "Deal with Gongadze." I am telling you this in cultural terms, because the conversations that took place there are simply terrible, it is impossible to repeat them verbatim. "Understand it!", "Take off his pants and take him to the forest", "Give him to the Chechens, take him to Chechnya"...

- And why the Chechens?

I don't know, maybe he had some idea. I note that he did not just say this, but repeated it many, many times. Kravchenko, by the way, it seems to me, understood the seriousness of the problem.

- He held back the President?

It looks like, in any case, I tried to do it as clean as possible (forgive me for using English) - very clean, so that later there would be no reason to blame anyone. However, from the conversations that I heard, I cannot say that he refused: "No, I will not do it."

- Was he careful?

Both the facts and my feelings confirm: President Kuchma is still to blame, just as all his entourage is to blame. Volodymyr Lytvyn has never spoken to me either, although he has said many times that he is not opposed... As for me, I was always ready to meet with one or the other, because it is fundamentally important for me to look them in the eye ... Alas, they did not express a desire to explain themselves.

- Really at a meeting you would directly ask if they were involved in the death of George?

I would find a way to do this.

From the Gordon Boulevard dossier:

Miroslava speaks with restraint about why she left Ukraine: just like Georgiy, she did not receive direct threats, but she was constantly monitored.

She bravely endured the tragedy that befell her family - according to her, she did not even take sedatives. However, even now, five years later, if someone approaches her from behind, she starts to get nervous.

Traveling across the ocean with two three-year-old daughters, and even not knowing the language, was a risky step, but the Gongadze family did not have to live in poverty. The widow was saved by the fact that back in Ukraine she collaborated with some American organizations - this helped to get small contracts. During her first year in the US, Miroslava worked at George Washington University, where she prepared a monograph on the protest movement in Ukraine in 2001, and collaborated with the American Foundation for Democracy.

A few years ago, Miroslava signed a contract with the Voice of America, whose management decided to update their television projects. The programs in which she works are broadcast by the First National Channel of Ukraine and Channel 5. In addition, she is often invited by American and European universities to talk about Ukraine and the Gongadze case.

“I knew about what was happening between George and Alena Pritula: when I came home, my husband told me about it. I forgave him various weaknesses - this was one of them ... "

- Probably, this question is not very pleasant for you, but I must ask it, because it worries many people. From the messages of Major Melnichenko, from newspaper publications and from the Internet, we know that there was a woman in Georgy's life - her name is Alena Prytula. It is known that they worked together and they allegedly had a much closer relationship than just workmates. They say that allegedly because of her, Gia could have been killed. Did you know about this unofficial relationship?

Yes, of course, I knew about what was happening between George and Alena, because when I came home, my husband told me about it. The thing is that Gia and I were not just a family - close friends, and I always supported him in many things, forgave him various weaknesses. It was one of his weaknesses... The information that George was killed because of Alena, I can neither refute nor confirm, however, I think this is not so. Perhaps their connection was only one of the factors, but not the cause ...

I am convinced that it was Georgiy's journalistic activity and the bright image of an active fighter for the rights of journalists that became the main reason for what happened to him ... Perhaps it was a political intrigue - I do not discount this version either. I will say this: he became a victim of politics, and twice already: when he was killed and now, in connection with the trial.

- Returning to Alena Pritula ... Did you communicate with her during the life of George and after his death?

During her life she did not communicate, and after - of course, many times. Understand, we needed to find George - both she and I were interested in this. I cooperated with her, because I understood: I have no other way, I was ready for this in order to find Gia ... Gia must be found." Then we held joint press conferences, tried to coordinate actions... It's true that we worked together, I won't say, we acted in parallel.

- You are talking about political intrigue. What was it?

An investigation is underway today, so I can’t talk about many things - I mean information that concerns those who ordered and organized the murder. It is still premature to publish how it all happened, although I already know how the murder itself took place and how it was organized. Direct perpetrators have been identified, the actions of each are known. After all, George could have been killed on September 15 - the operation was scheduled for that very day.

- Why did it break?

They just didn’t have time to set up the car: the husband stopped a taxi and came home.

I remember that evening well - the last one. George came quite late - somewhere at half past eleven, and I returned just from Warsaw. We talked very well, drank wine... Only recently, after reading the file, I realized with horror that he might not have come on the 15th.

You can imagine: about 40 policemen took part in the destruction of George. All these people have been identified, their names are known. You see, it was not just some bandits who killed, it was a large-scale operation of the Ministry of the Interior.

A version slipped through the press that they didn’t want Georgy’s death: allegedly they were going to intimidate him, bring him to the forest, hit him several times - and they didn’t kill him intentionally - by accident. This is true?

Judging by the materials that I can talk about, no.

- So the murder was planned?

Exactly. Now some policemen who were directly involved in the crime claim that they did not fully know that they were going to kill - they, they say, were not told this ...

According to them, no one, except General Pukach, was aware of the purpose of the operation, and they themselves realized that there would be a murder only at the end.

- How did it all happen - in detail, in detail?

I got acquainted with the circumstances of the crime, read all the materials of the case - many volumes, but while the pre-trial investigation and trial are underway, as a victim, I have no right to talk about them - this is forbidden to me by law. Sooner or later, all this will sound in court, in a guilty verdict.

At one time, there was a rumor that George was most likely alive: they say, he changed his appearance and is somewhere in the United States. Did you believe it was possible?

- (Sad). I am a realist... A realist and a lawyer... I talked with very serious people, and already a month after his disappearance it became clear: there is practically no chance that Gia is alive. Although we still hoped ... Often in the stream of people I looked for him with my eyes. So far, honestly! - I’m walking down the street and it seems to me that now he will appear, but this is just the desire of my heart ...

- When did you finally realize that he was no longer alive?

When Koba Alania called from Tarashchi and said: "Miroslava, we found him." I didn't want to believe it, it was terrible, I started hysterical. (Crying). I couldn't even ask what he meant...

- Did you see the body found in Tarashcha?

Certainly.

- It was he?

Firstly, this body was without a head, and it was not shown to me for a very long time. Secondly, it was in the morgue of the Tarashchansky district for 10 days without a refrigerator, in addition, then manipulations and examinations were carried out on it. In violation of the law, I was allowed to see the remains only a month after they were found, even later - as much as December 10th. At the same time, I wrote dozens of petitions and demands that they show me the body, because I could not believe ... It was fundamentally important to see, and when I finally managed to be allowed into the morgue ... (Crying). What they showed me was not a body - they were pieces of rotten meat, a skeleton of the chest ... It was impossible to identify it at all, it was even difficult to say that all this had once belonged to a person. There were no arms, no legs, nothing.

- Where is this body now?

In the Kiev morgue.

Until now, five years later? What prevents him from burying?

For the first three years, the prosecutor's office did not give permission. They said: "You can take it, but we do not identify the body, that is, you will receive the remains of an unknown person." Of course, they didn’t give me a death certificate, but I can’t bury my husband without it! Plus, George's mother still does not believe that this is her son - this is the main problem. Legally, as a wife, I have reason to take the body and bury it, but morally, this step should, I think, come from his mother. When she makes such a decision for herself, then the funeral will take place.

From the Gordon Boulevard dossier:

The daughters of Georgy and Miroslava Gongadze, although they wear embroidered shirts with jeans, feel more like Americans. School teachers say that Nana and Salome draw and dance very well, and since their mother is often absent from home, the grandmother took care of raising her granddaughters, who agreed to move to Washington for this.

With another grandmother, from the side of the father, they communicate only by phone. Miroslava is not sure that she will return to Ukraine with her children. “I haven’t made this decision yet,” she says. “All these years my thoughts and my life were connected with Ukraine, I was constantly engaged in my husband’s business, but at some point I stopped and suddenly realized that during this time I had changed a lot, and I don’t know if I can live in my homeland.”

There was a time when her daughters turned away and covered their ears when they heard non-native speech, but over the years they quickly made friends and now think and speak only in English. Miroslava tries to study Ukrainian with them, and not without success, but they don't know Russian at all.

Girls often remember every little thing about their father: what gifts he bought, what he taught them, what he played with them. They know that the pope is not alive, but his angel protects them. Unfortunately, mother cannot answer only one of their questions: "Where is the father's grave?".

"Everyone was assigned their own role: one was digging a grave, the second was holding hands and feet, the third was choking, the fourth was dousing with gasoline..."

Many do not believe that the former Minister of Internal Affairs of Ukraine, Yuriy Kravchenko, committed suicide - they still say that it was a murder and that he was eliminated precisely because he could shed light on the Gongadze case...

I immediately had many suspicions about Kravchenko's suicide. The man shot himself twice: once the bullet hit the sky and damaged the bone part of the jaw, and the second time - in the head. To be frank, I don't believe that this is possible, it seems to me that he was destroyed... Moreover, he did not give the impression of a person capable of committing suicide. In fact, I really hoped that Kravchenko would fight for himself to the end, which means testifying.

- What do you think, what testimony could he give?

He could tell who ordered this crime to him, why he organized it and how it all happened. He knew all the details perfectly.

Is General Pukach still alive, in your opinion, who headed the intelligence department at the Ministry of Internal Affairs and, according to some sources, personally organized the murder of Georgiy?

I have no doubt that he is alive, not for a minute. Since General Pukach belongs to the special services, that is, he is a secret agent, he had, believe me, the opportunity to disappear without being found.

- Do you often remember how you met George?

- (smiling). I won't tell you how often, but my whole connection with Gia, all the years spent with him, is a very happy part of life.

We met completely by accident. I worked as a legal consultant in the Lviv regional administration, and one day a very stately, handsome young man approached my boss right in the corridor. At that moment, on business, I left my office and stood near the door. The chief says: "Oh, George, it's good that you came. Here is Miroslava, she will help you." When I saw him, something immediately jumped inside, and purely intuitively, I realized: this is my future husband. Gia wanted to create the Bagrationi Center for Georgian Culture in Lviv, and of course, I helped him. Prepared documents, registered this center, started working...

I read a lot of your interviews - they show how much you loved George. I think after such a husband it is very difficult to find someone else, but you beautiful woman and you can't live without a man...

How do you know that I can't?

- Experience suggests...

In fact, I can't turn the page, I need some kind of completion. Americans call it close - when you end one part of your life and move on to another. Unfortunately, I can't cross over yet, I feel like I'm...

-...at the crossroads?

No, I wouldn't say that. Rather, I stand with my feet on two banks and can’t jump over to either side. This very difficult period dragged on for five years. I live in America, but my soul and information stay in Ukraine. All this is tearing me apart, and I cannot start from a new leaf.

When George died, I vowed to do everything possible so that this death was not in vain, and I will do everything in my power to investigate this terrible crime. I will certainly keep the promise I made to myself and my children.

- Nevertheless, there are men who look after you, who like you?

Eat (smiles).

- And how do you answer them?

Different men are different.

Do you think that a fair and honest investigation into the murder of Georgiy Gongadze is possible in today's Ukraine?

I think so, although... It must be remembered that many people involved in this crime and who were part of the system that existed until the end of 2004, have financial and political influence, serious leverage and will not just give up. They will fight for themselves - this is obvious and logical - but I think everything can be done if the leadership of Ukraine has enough political will and if the witnesses give truthful testimony.

Now you are present at the trial of the direct perpetrators. The people who tortured and killed Georgiy are sitting not just in the dock - next to you, in the same room. With what eyes do you look at them?

It is unusually difficult psychologically, so much so that it is even difficult to express. At the same time, I have no hatred for them, frankly speaking, I feel sorry for them, because these people punished themselves. First, they have no future. (I'm not hinting that something will happen to them, but they are morally devoid of perspective). Secondly, we feel sorry for them also because they, being the tools of the system, became its victims.

"George dreams when it's especially hard for me. Over all these years, he came in a dream five or six times ..."

- Could the defendants have failed to comply with the criminal order?

Of course they could refuse...

- At least one of them decided to do it?

No, everyone obeyed. Each of them was assigned their own role: one was digging a grave, the second was holding his hands and feet, the third was choking, the fourth was dousing with gasoline ... They were told - they did.

You have repeatedly communicated with President Yushchenko. Do you think he has the political will to bring the Gongadze case to its logical conclusion?

- (Long, drawn-out pause). In the depths of his soul, I think, he understands that this is fundamental not only for society, but also for himself. On the other hand, they have a strong influence on him (I mean people who do not want to investigate this case to the end). And yet, if you bring Viktor Andreevich into some dark or bright room and look into his soul, it seems to me that there will be no doubts - he personally wants the guilty to be punished.

- Do you think there will come a time when there will be no mysteries left in the Gongadze case?

Yes, but it will take a long time.

- How long is that?

It's hard to predict. Maybe a year, a year and a half, two, or maybe 10 years. General Pinochet, if you remember, was accused of killing the Chilean oppositionists 15 years after he carried out the coup.

- Do many dirty politicians want to warm their hands on the death of George?

I would say this: a lot of people are trying to make some political dividends on this. It is sometimes heard that an investigation becomes more difficult when politics intervene. This is true, although, on the other hand, if politicians had not used the Gongadze case from the very beginning, we might not have learned much to this day. In other words, if there hadn't been all this political mess, they would hardly have been able to find the truth, even the truncated one that we have today. It is unlikely that people who are already in the dock would get there, so I don’t want to blame anyone: politicians are politicians, they use every opportunity to push themselves forward.

- Until now, passions boil around Major Melnichenko's tapes ... By the way, have you listened to them?

Of course. I can’t say that I listened to everything, because I had access to only a few files - seven or eight, but they set out almost in order everything that concerns Georgy and me ...

Did they talk about you too?

Of course, the truth, after the murder. It was a conversation between President Kuchma and the then head of his Administration. “Here,” Litvin says, “now it turns out that she works as a press secretary for the Reform and Order party ... (I can’t vouch for the accuracy of the quotes, because there is a surzhik that I can’t convey). “She doesn’t look like a grieving widow (Something like this. -

M. G.). She and her husband probably agreed to promote this business "... It meant that I agreed with Georgy to fan the hype around his disappearance ...

Then comes the text, no longer about me, but important ... Its essence is how they tried to hush up the scandal in the press. And again, Volodymyr Lytvyn tells the President that he should use the First National Channel, which broadcasts the final analytical program. Here, they say, it should be said that hundreds of people disappear every day in Ukraine. Why, one wonders, is there such a stir around the murder of a journalist?

On the same Saturday, in the program, if I am not mistaken, "Seven Days", its presenter announced the statistics of disappearances and murders in Ukraine. The audience was told that this was an ordinary murder, one of many, and there was nothing, they say, to break spears here. There is a direct sequence: what was said on the tapes was later confirmed by concrete facts in life.

- Are the films of Major Melnichenko, in your opinion, real, authentic?

Do you mean their authenticity? I have absolutely no doubt that the recorded voices are fully consistent with the originals.

- But excuse me: it is hardly possible to keep a recorder under the presidential sofa...

Wrong - it's very possible.

- Do you think so?

I don’t just think - the investigation speaks about it.

- Finally, I want to ask if you dream of George and, if so, what are you talking about with him?

I can’t say that very often, but I dream. As a rule, when it is especially difficult for me, when problems accumulate. During all these years he came in a dream about five or six times. I do not remember the details, but I remember my feelings after waking up. He seemed to guard me, his words brought peace and relief. No, he didn’t hug me - we had a discussion about something, but I felt like I was in his aura all the time. This, by the way, helps me to survive ...

What happened to Georgy Gongadze cannot be called anything other than uniform banditry, so I would like to believe that those who ordered this crime will, in the end, be exposed, found and punished according to the law. I wish you that the day will soon come when all the worst will be left behind and you will begin a new bright life...

President Petro Poroshenko handed over the Order of the Star of the Hero to the widow of the murdered journalist Georgy Gongadze Miroslava, the press service of the head of state reports.

“Almost 16 years after the tragic death of Georgiy Gongadze, I have the high honor and great responsibility to give you and your family the golden star of the Hero of Ukraine, the highest state award that rightfully belongs to Georgy Gongadze,” Poroshenko said.

The President noted Gongadze's contribution to the development of independent Ukraine, the fight for freedom of speech and the development of independent media. "Georgy gave his life for Ukraine. He is an example of what a real Ukrainian should be," Poroshenko said.

P. Poroshenko also noted that today the title of Hero of Ukraine in a warring country has acquired its true value and within two recent years only a few dozen Ukrainians are honored to wear it.

In turn, Miroslava Gongadze noted: "Giya was always ready to give his life for Ukraine. And if he were alive today, he would be there - on the eastern borders. If he were alive, he would be proud of this award."

The President thanked the journalist's widow for not breaking ties with Ukraine and, in fact, working as a goodwill ambassador, strengthening the strategic partnership between Ukraine and the United States through public diplomacy.

It should be noted that the title of Hero of Ukraine Gongadze was posthumously awarded by President Viktor Yushchenko on August 23, 2005.

Gongadze disappeared in Kyiv on September 16, 2000. In November of the same year, a headless corpse was found in the forest of the Kyiv region, which, according to experts, could belong to a journalist. In 2009, the remains of a skull were found in the Kyiv region, which, according to the Prosecutor General's Office, belong to Gongadze. However, the body has not yet been interred, since the mother of the journalist Lesya Gongadze refused to admit that the remains found belong to her son.

Man and woman

Miroslava GONGADZE: “I don’t know if I will meet another man like George. I fell in love with him at first sight and immediately thought:“ This will be my husband.

Four years ago, in the spring of 2001, Miroslava Gongadze flew from Ukraine to America with her two young daughters. Her departure was very much like an escape. Yes, this is understandable. A fragile woman was driven out of the country by a nightmare officially called the "Gongadze case."

Four years ago, in the spring of 2001, Miroslava Gongadze flew from Ukraine to America with her two young daughters. Her departure was very much like an escape. Yes, this is understandable. A fragile woman was driven out of the country by a nightmare officially called the "Gongadze case." Since then, a lot has changed in our country. But the tragic story of the long-suffering family has not yet come to an end: the body of journalist Georgy Gongadze is still in the morgue, and the people who killed him have not been punished. And the worst thing is that his seven-year-old daughters, Solomiya and Nana, are afraid of the country in which they were born. In Kyiv, Miroslava met with the leaders of the country and journalists, presented her book "Broken Nerve. Chronology of Civil Protest".

"MY ATTITUDE TO PRESIDENT YUSHCHENKO? I AM AFRAID FOR HIM"

- Miroslava, are you already used to your new status, which obliges you to interviews, presentations, receptions?

It’s probably hard to get used to this, you just gradually begin to understand that this is part of your life. And you're not going anywhere! But I don’t go to receptions much, I speak more at universities, I talk about freedom of speech. I am often invited. And now I will fly from Kyiv to Washington, and from there to London, where I will talk about Ukrainian journalism and the Gongadze case. This is what makes my life today...

- During your current visit to Ukraine, you communicated with the President. How did he seem to you?

I have known Viktor Yushchenko before. When he was dismissed from the post of prime minister, she was the creative director of the action in defense of reforms and Yushchenko personally. Not so long ago we met in Washington and Strasbourg ... He impressed me as an honest, believing person who ... can be influenced.

It seems to me that Viktor Andreevich is too trusting and open towards people. In this, he is similar to George, who also trusted everyone and opened his soul. I see how important it is for him to finish this story, to put an end to it. He himself suffered greatly from that power. Therefore, if I can characterize my attitude towards President Yushchenko briefly, I will say: I am afraid for him.

- Were you afraid for your husband too?

Constantly! But George was a very freedom-loving person, he could not be told what to do and how to do it. He always decided for himself and believed that he was doing everything right. I just tried to support him, provide comfortable conditions, create a kind of channel along which he, like a wide, full-flowing river, could move ...

After the disappearance of your husband, there were reports in the press that he was seen in different places - in Lviv and even abroad. Did you hope he was alive?

The fact is that all these messages appeared after a body was found in the Tarashchansky forest and an identification was carried out. I understood that such publications - clean water speculation. It was obvious that law enforcement practically do not investigate, but, on the contrary, do everything to hush up the scandal. It was terribly embarrassing and hard!

- Who supported you in those difficult times?

Friends. It turned out that I have a lot of them. I remember that on September 18 I came to my office, and there were already 20 people sitting there. They said: "Come in, we will decide what to do!" And I realized that I was not alone. Since then, I seemed to be in the center, and around - a wall of my friends. Without these people who still support me both in America and in Ukraine, I would not have been able to survive all this.

- Where did you get your strength?

A difficult question ... The main thing that kept me and keeps me is the children who need to be taken care of. They have no one but me. I became like a compressed spring, my soul turned to stone. I remember once I came to my boss and said: “Tomorrow I will cut my hair bald!”. I had it then short haircut. But I was literally bursting with a sense of protest! I felt like I was a warrior woman. Thank God, now I'm slowly starting to move away from this nightmare.

Of course, America helped me in this, the fact that now I live far away and what is happening here has faded into the background. In addition, it was necessary to settle in a new place.

Experience shows that political assassinations often go unsolved. Do you believe that the perpetrators are indeed arrested this time?

Apparently, these are indeed those who were directly involved in the murder. They testify, tell where to look for physical evidence. I think that political murders can also be uncovered if there are people for whom this is fundamentally important, if they have enough strength and energy to fight.

Probably, many counted on the fact that we: I, Giina's mother and other people who help us, would get tired. Sometimes they ask: "Why do you need it? After all, you will not return George!" Yes, so that others were disrespectful! If this murder is solved, next time someone will be afraid to commit such a crime.

"I STILL REMAIN A CITIZEN OF UKRAINE"

- One of the main witnesses in the Gongadze case, former Interior Minister Yuri Kravchenko, is dead. Do you think this is really suicide?

I don't think a man can shoot himself twice. As far as I understand, with the first shot he showed that someone was standing over him. Although the Attorney General assured us that it was suicide. I have big doubts about this. I met Kravchenko once, and he seemed to me a very smart and strong-willed person. I had no doubt that he would fight, fight and defend to the end. On the other hand, the ex-Minister of the Interior received his death sentence. Who carried it out? I really liked the words of Yushchenko, who said: "Some people go to the court of society, others judge themselves." But I can’t say anything concretely, all questions must be answered by the investigation.

- How did you get settled in America?

More or less normal. I live near Washington, near the Potomac River and Arlington Cemetery, where the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier is located. Great area! The children go to a very good school. When we arrived, there were no other classes, but here we were right in the preparatory class. Later I learned that this is the best school in the whole state.

- Have you already learned the language?

I had to, I didn't know a word of English. At first it was very difficult, I worked at night, slept three or four hours a day, I was very tired. Then my mother came to us, little by little everything got better. We have a small apartment by American standards (90 square meters, two rooms) in a high-rise building, but without boasting, I will say that I was able to provide myself and my children with a normal life.

I work very hard, without lunch breaks and weekends. But in America, you won’t surprise anyone with such a busy schedule ... In the Ukrainian edition of Voice of America, I am both a TV presenter and a reporter (my program is called Hour-Time), I write a lot, do research, travel around the country and the world.

- Life in America is different from life in Ukraine. Are you already used to it?

Let's just say, I got hooked. And I like that if people promise something, they do it. If something is not included in their plans, then they directly talk about it. And we always have some kind of undercover moves, endless intrigues, and this is very annoying. I hope this state of affairs will someday change, although this process is lengthy. For my part, I try to do what I can. I often visit Strasbourg on the Gongadze case. It seems to me that I have already met with all the leaders of European states ...

- Did you follow the events of the Orange Revolution?

I didn't just follow them - I lived it! In the morning, the first thing I did was turn on the Internet and look: was the Maidan destroyed?! I even booked tickets to Kyiv because I just couldn't sit still in the United States. But my boss said: "Only you can communicate with American politicians, getting them literally out of the ground. They listen to you, you know how to get information. Therefore, your place is here!" Now I understand that he was right.

- Do you miss Ukraine?

Crazy! My father has a house on a small farm, it is very beautiful there, there is a forest around. As a child, I often went there, especially in the summer, on vacation. So, when I feel really bad, for some reason I always remember this farm. And it gets easier. Is it true! And now I went to Lviv, visited my mother Gia, my father. I met with many relatives whom I love very much. And then lately I spend more of my energy on journalists, and my relatives are offended.

- Did you change your citizenship?

No, I still remain a citizen of Ukraine. This allows me to live both there and here. Besides, maybe we'll be back someday...

"SOMETIMES I SEE GIA IN A DREAM"

- What do you tell children about your father?

They remember George, but somehow in fits and starts. It's good that we have a lot of photos and we look at them often. I want them to know who their father was, to remember him. I want my daughters to be proud that they are Ukrainians. I read books on my native history to them, I tell them how beautiful Ukraine is.

- They understand?

Even if they don’t understand something due to their infancy, they feel it. It is important for me that they know their roots.

- The main theme of the materials about Georgy Gongadze is "Know what kind of guy he was!". How do you remember him?

- (smiles dreamily). I often remember our first house in Lvov, where philosophers, musicians and artists constantly, day and night, crowded around. I remember our endless lack of money. And at the same time some absolute happiness and carelessness. I fell in love with George at first sight and immediately thought: "This will be my husband!".

We got along somehow immediately and forever. There was no need to say anything, everything was clear. I don’t know if I will meet such a man as George in my life. Everything about him was interesting: his inconstancy, and endless running around on various matters, indefatigable energy, love for people and life in general! Sometimes I see him in my dreams. As a rule, when it is difficult for me or I cannot cope with something. I think he helps me.

- Do you remember your last day with George?

That morning I woke up earlier, he was still sleeping. And I had to prepare for a seminar that was held outside the city, in Koncha-Zaspa. I decided to take my children with me. Before leaving the house, she woke Georgiy and said: "We are leaving!" He started up: "Wait, the girls haven't had a lesson yet!" Recently, my husband has been studying English and Georgian with them. Children - and they were still very small - shouted: they say, we don’t want to! But George insisted. I waited another half an hour, our nanny came. Then we kissed and I left. Two more times during that day we talked on the phone. And that was all... You know, I always remembered the words from the famous poem:

Don't part with your loved ones
Grow in them with all your blood.
And every time forever say goodbye
When you leave for a moment.

I thought they were about me. And I always said goodbye to him, as if for good. I loved him very much... Very much! It's hard for me to remember, but it's sweet at the same time. I consider myself an absolutely happy woman, whom fate gave the opportunity to experience such love, such happiness and ... such grief. You know, Americans say that difficulties make our soul deeper. I think everything that happened also affected my soul.

Once upon a time, as a teenager, she watched the bright TV Panorama International every Sunday. Now it's the other way around - millions watch her "Hour-Time". This will be discussed in an interview with Miroslava Gongadze.

A simple girl from Berezhany, who in her youth traveled by night trains to the premieres of the Kurbas Theater in Lviv, knows the recipe for making her dream come true: “We must be afraid of inaction, not actions.” And again: " It is better to make mistakes than to do nothing". She is considered one of the most influential women in Ukraine, although Miroslava Gongadze lives and works in Washington.

Everyone listens to her and everyone listens to her - from fellow journalists and human rights activists to influential politicians. Informing, not interpreting, is one of the conditions for her success in the profession. Miroslava was lucky with teachers and mentors, but she does not like and does not want to hide in their shadow. Miroslava Gongadze - selfmade.

In the American capital, among other things, it performs two functions: it lobbies "Ukrainian" among officials, politicians, students and colleagues, and also promotes Western values ​​and principles among Ukrainians themselves. And it seems that the successful Ukrainian Miroslava Gongadze knows what she is doing.

Miroslava, please tell us about your family, where does it come from?

All my ancestors that I remember, and these are grandmothers, grandfathers and great-grandmothers, were all peasants. I well remember my beloved grandfather Nikolai, my father's father, Nikolai Petrishin. His wife died, and he was left with a small daughter in his arms. Then my grandmother Ekaterina was waiting for her newlywed from France, but she did not wait. My grandfather married her. Before the war, in 1939, they were resettled from under the Polish border to the east, and settled on a farm near Berezhany. There they remained to live: without waste water, electricity, gas and other benefits of civilization. Four children were born and raised on the farm. One of them is my dad Vladimir. Grandmother said that after the war the “soviets” came and again they wanted to drive them further east. But she lay down on the floor, covered the children and said: “Shoot, I won’t go any further!” So they miraculously survived. They had a lot of land, cattle, horses. When the collective farms began, everything was taken away from them. But they left the farm in order to survive.

Mom is from the village of Naraev, which is next to my father's farm. Before the war it was even a small town, but during the war all the Jews were exterminated, the small town became empty and became a village. Grandfather Mikhail was silent, gloomy, he went through the war in Berlin, his whole chest was in medals. But he never recovered from the leg injury, he limped all his life. My mother Olga was born after the war in 1949, 16 years after her sister.

- Miroslava, what did your parents find themselves in?

My parents are both engineers. Both are good at math. Both have phenomenal memories. My mother's favorite pastime is solving numerological crossword puzzles. She even learned English, without any preparation - while living with me in Washington. She wrote better than me in English. When I went to the supermarket, I counted the cost of purchases in my head and knew to the cent how much I should pay at the checkout. Dad recited “The Tale of Igorev’s Campaign” by heart, taught me Shevchenko as a child, I still remember “Dream” from his words.

I grew up in a large family, the oldest among the children. I have a two-year younger sister, Galina, and a 10-year-old younger brother, Nikolai. On big holidays - Christmas, Easter - we all gathered in one or the other grandfathers and grandmothers. A huge table, carols, singing, it was very friendly and warm. Now I feel that my children do not have enough of this, because there are only three of us here ourselves and we rarely see our family.

- And why did you decide to become a lawyer, and did not follow the "traces" of your parents?

My mother encouraged me to make this decision. As a practical person, she wanted me to have a reliable profession. But as a creative person, I dreamed of theater, journalism, and, in extreme cases, of the Faculty of History. I spent all my childhood on stage. Reciting poetry, singing, dancing, playing roles - that was my element. But the theater or cinema for the girl from Berezhany was out of reach. At least in my imagination. So, weighing my chances, I listened to my parents. I thought to myself that I would really get a prestigious profession, and then I would be engaged in creativity. In the end, it did. Only creativity has become journalism.

I also dreamed about this as a child. We always watched the news, my parents subscribed to a whole bunch of newspapers and magazines, and I didn’t miss a single Sunday International Panorama. I watched, dreamed of traveling the world, talking about life in other countries. Now I am happy that I got a legal profession. It taught me to think logically and constructively. At the same time, my creative talents help to reach people's hearts. Therefore, I firmly believe and teach this to my children - dreams come true when you really want something and work hard for it. All it takes is courage and faith. There is nothing unattainable when we are open to the world and believe in our victory.

- And what did the girl from Berezhan do when she became a student?

My student life can hardly even be called student life. Started working from the second year. First, in the Lviv State Administration as a legal consultant, then in the Post-Postup newspaper, then in the New Wave political bloc, where she headed the press service. She worked very hard. Exams passed "on the go"

I remember how during the elections we were observers at a polling station in one of the villages in the Lviv region. Our candidate Taras Stetskov won. We returned home at 6 in the morning, and at 8 - an exam in civil law. I went, passed on a four, still spat, because I thought that I knew a five. My student life fell on the beginning of the nineties. Lviv then seethed with political and creative life. We slept little, from a theatrical performance to a political or musical performance - everything was mixed up, there was not enough time for anything! And when I met George, life generally turned into a volcano crater.

So that you understand what Lvov was like. On my 21st birthday, the Dead Rooster rock band sang at a party in our hut. A bunch of people gathered from everywhere, they danced in the middle of the hut, they even had to turn the table upside down and put it on the sofa - there was simply no other place! Often we did not have money, there was nothing to eat, but there was always Georgian cognac and wine. I got out like this - I’ll go to the market, buy what is the cheapest, from what you can find (some kind of cabbage, for example), pick up apples in the garden, rub it all, pour it with mayonnaise - and on the table! It was funny, because the guests praised, the recipe was written down. We had such gatherings almost every day: guitar, toasts, philosophical conversations. From time to time, on the roof, where there was another small room, Yura Prokhasko, Gena Glibovitsky and Irina Yakubyak, Andrei Shkrabyuk, and some other artists lived in turn. In a word, we were in a hurry to live.

- And what places in Lviv were your favorite places for your environment?

We did not miss a single performance of the Les Kurbas Theater, I went to all the events of the theater festival - this was my hobby. Before entering Lviv University, she had to study at a technical school in Chernivtsi for two years - she was gaining experience. So, I went to the performances of the Lviv Youth Theater (the first name of the Lviv Academic Theater named after Les Kurbas) by night train from Chernivtsi. The performance ended, and I again - on the train, and to Chernivtsi. And already when I moved to Lviv, Molodezhny became our Mecca.

Everything was new back then. Young country, first love, youth. It's like in Vakarchuk - my little independence. It was my personal little independence and the big independence of the nation that had just appeared, and few understood what to do with it all. We created ourselves and this country the way our intuition told us.

- Was it also an intuitive decision to go into journalism? Has anyone advised?

I always knew that somehow I would be connected with journalism. The lawyer out of me came out like this - I have no patience for details. I'm interested in the big picture of the world. However, a legal education helps me to think structurally and logically, it makes my work easier, it is easier to guess the essence of the processes.

... I began to try myself in journalism, to be published in Promotion already with Georgy. First I edited his articles. More precisely, he dictated to the Ukrainian-Russian, and I already brought his thoughts to sense. This went on for a year or two, until he learned the Ukrainian language. Then he began to write himself, and I became brave enough to publish my materials.

And what principles, both in journalism and in life, did you adopt from George then? What did he teach you, and what did you teach him?

George loved people, he sympathized, helped, shared, he was a very sincere soul. He lived today, he lived every moment - not yesterday, and not tomorrow, but now. This is what I tried to learn from him. He was very open to people - often to his own detriment, and here I tried to restrain him from some imprudent steps of generosity.

As for the profession, neither he nor I were journalists by training. It was a calling for both of us, and we learned to realize it together. When we met, Gia was a teacher in English and I am a legal consultant in the public administration. I think it was creativity that brought us together. Georgy was such a generator of ideas, I designed them into realistic projects. As for advice, Gia always said, never step back, never look back, even a small step forward is a victory.

Miroslava, what are your plans for the future? Do you plan to return to Ukraine? Under what circumstances can this happen?

You know, although I live in the USA, I have never left Ukraine informationally and emotionally. My children and the good of Ukraine are two things that worry me and for which I live every day. Regarding the return - we'll see. I will live and work where I feel useful. My first responsibility is my daughters. I will release them to the world, and if I see that I can be useful in Ukraine, I will return.